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The reality is that life is messy, says Jay Bakker in an interview with ThinkFwd host, Spencer Burke. We can respond out of fear and avoid both people and life, or we can follow the gospel and live lives full of love, grace and hope. Bakker wants to follow the second path. Speaking from personal experience, he says pastors need to be transparent—not to condone sin—but to live in reality and help people see that because life is messy and we have sin and problems—that is why we need redemption.
Part of loving people is practicing restoration and forgiveness. Jay learned a lot about forgiveness from his parents. In fact, he says, “I thought they were idiots for being so forgiving—for the people they forgave. I would say, “Where is the justice?” when they would forgive.
But when Jay took some personal hits for taking a stance on gay and lesbian issues, saying he did not think a person could change their sexuality, he began to study and pray about it. He became more and more convicted that we are called to forgive, to love, and to restore people.
God’s restoration is “better than new” and not limited or constrained like people’s restoration often is—a reality of our human natures. But thankfully, God’s mind doesn’t work like ours, and Bakker encourages us to follow in God’s example where love covers a multitude of sins, and casts out fear.
Personal Reflections:
- Do you think you need to be perfect, or do you think we live in a “messy spirituality?”
- How do you feel when you engage someone who knows their Bible, but doesn’t know how to love people?
Small Group or Staff Questions:
- As a community, how do you reconcile the concepts of justice and forgiveness?
- When we love people, we engage them and when we fear people, we avoid them. How have you seen this play out in your community?
- Many times, human restoration is conditional or punitive. God’s restoration is about grace, hope and love. How can we embrace forgiveness and restoration?
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August 27th, 2009 at 11:49 am
i don’t think christians only can be, i think that we ought to be. this was the entire thrust of the sermon on the mount, this was the climax of romans. if we do not look at others with the merciful grace that god has rendered unto us in christ, then we make christ a fool and deny the very core of our faith.
finding more and more of a theological brother in jay. keep it rolling. god’s there with you.
August 27th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
I ♥ Jay Bakker! He has so much love and to me is the perfect example of a true Christian.
August 27th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
I love Jay. I know him from Atlanta at If Coffee house. I love the message of grace and reaching people through love and grace. But I also know that scripture says ” be perfect as you heavenly father is…” which I know to mean do your best to perfect (verb) your lives. ‘work out your salvation’ It is messy! But I think that sin is sin be it sexual or speeding on the way to church because you are late. I don’t think that you can condone any of them. You just have to realize that they are there and err on the side of grace when you are trying to love people. It is one thing to love someone in spite of their sin ; it is another to say that it is okay to be in sin.
I also agree with him when he talked about the concept of loving the sinner and not the sin. That concept is NOT in scripture. Gandhi said it. Most people don’t know that, especially Christians. The word says that while we were yet sinners, Christ died… It is impossible to divorce the two (sin and people). We can not be sinless. Only through Christ’s blood are we seen sinless. God knows we sin and because of our position in Christ , he chooses not to condemn us for it. I wish him well and pray that God uses him to reach as many as he sees fit.
August 27th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
In recent years I have changed my mind about same sex relationships. At times I wonder, “Why must it be a scandal to accept our gay brothers and sisters without trying to get them to ‘pray the gay away?’” It is heartening to encounter bold love that will not be discreet about love for one another no matter sexual orientation.
Fiery love will inspire others to do likewise.
Thank you Jay and to The Ooze team for busting down the borders that keep us from. Exhibiting Otherliness.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:40 am
just because a man says something is right does that make Gods word void? not at all
shall we continue in sin so that grace can abound? certainly not-rom 6:1
restoration is not about accepting peoples sin
God accepts us just the way we are and then He loves us so much that He helps us change into who He wants us to be
max lucado talks about how his little girl put a handful of dirt in her mouth and when he saw it he took her over to the water fountain to wash it out
did he love her any less with the dirt in her mouth? of course not. and he loved her too much to leave her with the dirt in her mouth
thats how God loves us
God never changes His mind on sin
God has not given us a word saying sin is ok so why would we make it ok on our own terms just to accept people
arent we supposed to become more like Christ
did Christ accept sin
not at all
go your way and sin no more
while we will never be free from sin in this life that does not mean we should condone it in ourselves and it also means we should inform our brothers and sisters when they are caught in it
August 28th, 2009 at 1:18 am
I don’t think being gay is a sin. Being mean-spirited is…
August 28th, 2009 at 7:52 am
There are weightier matters (as Jesus said). I believe this restorative and forgiving kind of love is much weightier than mere sexual morality.
I’ve never considered myself gay affirming, but I still appreciate the thrust of what Jay is saying here.
Several of my long-time friends are either recovering from a gay lifestyle or returning to one. Either way they seem to be happy with the direction they’ve gone. Is happiness the best judge for healthy boundaries?
I’ll keep questioning some God and church questions, but hopefully I never forget Jesus’ prayer:
“Forgive us as we forgive others.”
August 29th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Wow…another lens to contemplate same sex marriage. I love it! Thank you Jay! Before I turned toward my call to ordained ministry, my favorate saying was…life is messy! Why is society so bent on pushing us toward perfection when only the uncreated Creator could be perfect. We are messy. Life is messy. However as we are redeemed, we all have a place in redemtpion. ALL OF US! We all need to learn to love one another! And help each other on the journey..
August 31st, 2009 at 2:03 pm
we should always activate in love and remember that we all sin even if we are in Christ
sinlessness is unattainable in this body of death we are in (paul makes those points so much better than i can)
also paul makes many points that show that sexual morality is still an issue for the church and should be taken seriously
paul even talks about how humans have traded natural affection for same sex affection
the NT “love” message never takes away from the OT truth of what sin is but rather it promotes saying that if we love God and love our neighbor as ourselves that wee will fulfill everything else because love never does harm
there is a point in the bible that talks about how sexual immorality actually breeds sin committed against oneself
its not that sexual sins are worse than other sins as much as they are different
if one says that sexual sins are not sin then they are making their own theology and inserting their opinions into Gods word
we all have sin and God knows that so lets not downplay it as ok
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:58 am
I don’t think heroin, polygamy, or pornography is a sin, and I’m tired of all the mean-spirited people that say it is. It’s so “unloving” to tell someone that what they are doing is wrong… even if you are doing it because you love them.
Can’t we just affirm everything? Gosh!
September 3rd, 2009 at 12:03 am
i am continually amazed at how some people do not see those whom jesus challenged as reflected in their pharisaic slavery to the law. paul believed himself to be a slave to christ not the law because he understood jesus to have fulfilled the law of death with the law of grace and mercy. if this is not the heart of the gospel then the gospel does not exist.
September 20th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
ya…it’s amazing how many are quick to judge. i really believe this makes God sad. Christians often DETER me from pointing people to the church. Why do people get so fixated on sexuality when they often lack awareness of the condition of their own heart? I think of people who reveal their judgements of others, when suddenly a word is spoken or a situation arises to reveal, “surprise!”, they’re dealing with the EXACT same issue or another. When your slate is clean from lust, idolatry, greed, pride, envy, jealousy, arrogance, negligence, selfishness, lack of self-control, etc, etc….then, go ahead, speak.(Oh, and congratulations on your perfection! and the omniscience of God). The amazing thing is Jesus loves us with all of the flawed factors in our lives, whether people agree or disagree with that.
November 1st, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Being gay is a sin. I like Jay but he is absolutely wrong.