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	<title>Comments on: Tim King &#8211; Conversion or Contribution</title>
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	<description>The latest ideas, conversations, and media related to the emerging church.  Check out TheOoze.com for more articles and discussions.</description>
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		<title>By: DLR</title>
		<link>http://theooze.tv/thinkfwd/tim-king-conversion-or-contribution/comment-page-1#comment-454</link>
		<dc:creator>DLR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theooze.tv/?p=546#comment-454</guid>
		<description>If I can just comment on one of the remarks that Tim King made. He says, &quot;For me my primal narrative is the Jesus Story...I&#039;m not going [to need] to forfeit that [to make peace]...&quot; (@5:05).

Mr. King is wrong. He has forfeited part of the &quot;Jesus Story.&quot;

These are Jesus&#039; words from Luke 12:

49 “I came to cast fire on the earth, and would that it were already kindled! 50 I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress until it is accomplished! 51 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. 52 For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

Jesus said that faith in him would not bring peace on earth, but division. Tim King says that our belief in Jesus should bring peace on earth, and not division.

Unfortunately, the true gospel offends and causes division. The true gospel says that Jesus is the only way to eternal life. &quot;No one comes to the Father except through me.&quot; (John 14:6.) &quot;I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.&quot; (John 8:24.) People don&#039;t want to believe this, hence the division.

It&#039;s not that Christian&#039;s want division. It&#039;s that the only way to avoid division is to deny the Word of God and change the gospel. Christian&#039;s do not change the gospel because they want to please God. Tim King is doing whatever he can to change the gospel to avoid division and please man.

Galatians 1 -
&quot;8 But even if we or an angel from heaven [or Tim King] should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I can just comment on one of the remarks that Tim King made. He says, &#8220;For me my primal narrative is the Jesus Story&#8230;I&#8217;m not going [to need] to forfeit that [to make peace]&#8230;&#8221; (@5:05).</p>
<p>Mr. King is wrong. He has forfeited part of the &#8220;Jesus Story.&#8221;</p>
<p>These are Jesus&#8217; words from Luke 12:</p>
<p>49 “I came to cast fire on the earth, and would that it were already kindled! 50 I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress until it is accomplished! 51 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. 52 For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”</p>
<p>Jesus said that faith in him would not bring peace on earth, but division. Tim King says that our belief in Jesus should bring peace on earth, and not division.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the true gospel offends and causes division. The true gospel says that Jesus is the only way to eternal life. &#8220;No one comes to the Father except through me.&#8221; (John 14:6.) &#8220;I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.&#8221; (John 8:24.) People don&#8217;t want to believe this, hence the division.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that Christian&#8217;s want division. It&#8217;s that the only way to avoid division is to deny the Word of God and change the gospel. Christian&#8217;s do not change the gospel because they want to please God. Tim King is doing whatever he can to change the gospel to avoid division and please man.</p>
<p>Galatians 1 -<br />
&#8220;8 But even if we or an angel from heaven [or Tim King] should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.</p>
<p>10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://theooze.tv/thinkfwd/tim-king-conversion-or-contribution/comment-page-1#comment-431</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theooze.tv/?p=546#comment-431</guid>
		<description>Ups.., I was refering to Tim King, of course, not Spencer Burke...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ups.., I was refering to Tim King, of course, not Spencer Burke&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://theooze.tv/thinkfwd/tim-king-conversion-or-contribution/comment-page-1#comment-427</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 09:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theooze.tv/?p=546#comment-427</guid>
		<description>@ Joe Lewis

&quot;If Jesus were to arrive today, I wonder how many of these same people would accept His messiahship?&quot;

That much is certain: in view of what Spencer Burke says here, he cannot either, because Jesus is what..? A pointer..? To what..?

Sorry, this is nonsense, just bad theology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Joe Lewis</p>
<p>&#8220;If Jesus were to arrive today, I wonder how many of these same people would accept His messiahship?&#8221;</p>
<p>That much is certain: in view of what Spencer Burke says here, he cannot either, because Jesus is what..? A pointer..? To what..?</p>
<p>Sorry, this is nonsense, just bad theology.</p>
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		<title>By: Vee</title>
		<link>http://theooze.tv/thinkfwd/tim-king-conversion-or-contribution/comment-page-1#comment-395</link>
		<dc:creator>Vee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theooze.tv/?p=546#comment-395</guid>
		<description>As far as how the bible shouldn&#039;t be taken as a literal map or photograph but it should be a map which is a pointer just as Jesus was not so much the point but the pointer to God who is the point. Hmmmm. What does Jesus say about who the Word of God points to?

Joh 5:39 You examine the Scriptures carefully because you suppose that in them you have eternal life. Yet they testify about me.

Joh 5:40 But you are not willing to come to me to have life.

Joh 5:41 &quot;I do not accept human praise. Joh 5:42 I know that you do not have the love of God in you.

Joh 5:43 I have come in my Father&#039;s name, and you do not accept me. Yet if another man comes in his own name, you will accept him.

Joh 5:44 How can you believe when you accept each other&#039;s praise and do not look for the praise that comes from the only God?

Joh 5:45 Do not suppose that I will be the one to accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom you have set your hope.

Joh 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me, for it was about me that he wrote.

Joh 5:47 But if you do not believe what he wrote, how will you believe my words?&quot;

Indeed, Jesus Christ is the point of the Bible. It is all about him. If you wanted to sum up the Bible in one word, you could do so by pointing to Christ. The Old Testament makes promises about Christ, and the New Testament keeps promises in Christ. [The Message of the Old Testament - Promises Made:  Mark Dever]

I guess Jesus got it wrong hey?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as how the bible shouldn&#8217;t be taken as a literal map or photograph but it should be a map which is a pointer just as Jesus was not so much the point but the pointer to God who is the point. Hmmmm. What does Jesus say about who the Word of God points to?</p>
<p>Joh 5:39 You examine the Scriptures carefully because you suppose that in them you have eternal life. Yet they testify about me.</p>
<p>Joh 5:40 But you are not willing to come to me to have life.</p>
<p>Joh 5:41 &#8220;I do not accept human praise. Joh 5:42 I know that you do not have the love of God in you.</p>
<p>Joh 5:43 I have come in my Father&#8217;s name, and you do not accept me. Yet if another man comes in his own name, you will accept him.</p>
<p>Joh 5:44 How can you believe when you accept each other&#8217;s praise and do not look for the praise that comes from the only God?</p>
<p>Joh 5:45 Do not suppose that I will be the one to accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom you have set your hope.</p>
<p>Joh 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me, for it was about me that he wrote.</p>
<p>Joh 5:47 But if you do not believe what he wrote, how will you believe my words?&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed, Jesus Christ is the point of the Bible. It is all about him. If you wanted to sum up the Bible in one word, you could do so by pointing to Christ. The Old Testament makes promises about Christ, and the New Testament keeps promises in Christ. [The Message of the Old Testament - Promises Made:  Mark Dever]</p>
<p>I guess Jesus got it wrong hey?</p>
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		<title>By: Vee</title>
		<link>http://theooze.tv/thinkfwd/tim-king-conversion-or-contribution/comment-page-1#comment-394</link>
		<dc:creator>Vee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theooze.tv/?p=546#comment-394</guid>
		<description>The Mystery of God HAS been revealed:


Rom 16:25  Now to him that is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal, 
Rom 16:26  but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith
Eph 3:3  how that by revelation was made known unto me the mystery, as I wrote before in few words, 
Eph 3:4  whereby, when ye read, ye can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ; 
Eph 3:5  which in other generations was not made known unto the sons of men, as it hath now been revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit 


And flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God:

1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 

The Kingdom of God is not of this world:

Joh 18:36  Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 

Mat 6:19  Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20  but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth consume, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21  for where thy treasure is, there will thy heart be also. 

None of what he says can measure up to the Word of God!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mystery of God HAS been revealed:</p>
<p>Rom 16:25  Now to him that is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal,<br />
Rom 16:26  but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith<br />
Eph 3:3  how that by revelation was made known unto me the mystery, as I wrote before in few words,<br />
Eph 3:4  whereby, when ye read, ye can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ;<br />
Eph 3:5  which in other generations was not made known unto the sons of men, as it hath now been revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit </p>
<p>And flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God:</p>
<p>1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. </p>
<p>The Kingdom of God is not of this world:</p>
<p>Joh 18:36  Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. </p>
<p>Mat 6:19  Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal:<br />
Mat 6:20  but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth consume, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:<br />
Mat 6:21  for where thy treasure is, there will thy heart be also. </p>
<p>None of what he says can measure up to the Word of God!</p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://theooze.tv/thinkfwd/tim-king-conversion-or-contribution/comment-page-1#comment-392</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theooze.tv/?p=546#comment-392</guid>
		<description>Totally messed up. This is what happens when you have a bad eschatology.  When my Lord returns its going to be alot better than this!!!!!1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally messed up. This is what happens when you have a bad eschatology.  When my Lord returns its going to be alot better than this!!!!!1</p>
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		<title>By: Matt S</title>
		<link>http://theooze.tv/thinkfwd/tim-king-conversion-or-contribution/comment-page-1#comment-391</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theooze.tv/?p=546#comment-391</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure what this is...but it&#039;s not Christianity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure what this is&#8230;but it&#8217;s not Christianity.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Lewis</title>
		<link>http://theooze.tv/thinkfwd/tim-king-conversion-or-contribution/comment-page-1#comment-380</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theooze.tv/?p=546#comment-380</guid>
		<description>Most know that the Apostle Paul would be unacceptable to pastor many evangelical/fundamentalist congregations because of his past/history. (Has he really &quot;converted&quot; can we really trust him?)

If Jesus were to arrive today, I wonder how many of these same people would accept His messiahship? (You know, He does forgive inspite of what the law says. And He&#039;s too darned friendly with those people who are clearly sinners BEFORE they &quot;repent&quot; and accept Him as their &quot;Savior.&quot; He CAN&#039;T be the real one!)

Sound familier?

Keep at it Tim!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most know that the Apostle Paul would be unacceptable to pastor many evangelical/fundamentalist congregations because of his past/history. (Has he really &#8220;converted&#8221; can we really trust him?)</p>
<p>If Jesus were to arrive today, I wonder how many of these same people would accept His messiahship? (You know, He does forgive inspite of what the law says. And He&#8217;s too darned friendly with those people who are clearly sinners BEFORE they &#8220;repent&#8221; and accept Him as their &#8220;Savior.&#8221; He CAN&#8217;T be the real one!)</p>
<p>Sound familier?</p>
<p>Keep at it Tim!</p>
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		<title>By: Dena Brehm</title>
		<link>http://theooze.tv/thinkfwd/tim-king-conversion-or-contribution/comment-page-1#comment-358</link>
		<dc:creator>Dena Brehm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 22:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theooze.tv/?p=546#comment-358</guid>
		<description>Love it!

We&#039;re IN the fulfillment, but we&#039;re learning how to live that out, here and now, through the renewal of the mind, the healing of our wounds, letting (our) lies be replaced with (God&#039;s) truths.

Dis be da Kingdom...

FREEDOM &amp; responsibility...!

(methinks most prefer rules and &quot;safety&quot;)

Go, Tim!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love it!</p>
<p>We&#8217;re IN the fulfillment, but we&#8217;re learning how to live that out, here and now, through the renewal of the mind, the healing of our wounds, letting (our) lies be replaced with (God&#8217;s) truths.</p>
<p>Dis be da Kingdom&#8230;</p>
<p>FREEDOM &amp; responsibility&#8230;!</p>
<p>(methinks most prefer rules and &#8220;safety&#8221;)</p>
<p>Go, Tim!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Denee</title>
		<link>http://theooze.tv/thinkfwd/tim-king-conversion-or-contribution/comment-page-1#comment-357</link>
		<dc:creator>Denee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theooze.tv/?p=546#comment-357</guid>
		<description>Just want to clear up Roderick&#039;s point #4. 
Sin has come to an end...Sin...separation from God.
If you are using the word &quot;sin&quot; as a verb...a choice that leads to painful consequences then I see where you are coming from.
But then...what would the tree of life in Revelation be there for - the one whose leaves are for the healing of the nations - if no one needs &#039;healing&#039; in the new earth? 
I think when we get a clearer picture of what &quot;sin and death&quot; mean...we can see the amazing beauty of this present moment...being one with our creator and knowing nothing can ever separate us from him..Sin removed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just want to clear up Roderick&#8217;s point #4.<br />
Sin has come to an end&#8230;Sin&#8230;separation from God.<br />
If you are using the word &#8220;sin&#8221; as a verb&#8230;a choice that leads to painful consequences then I see where you are coming from.<br />
But then&#8230;what would the tree of life in Revelation be there for &#8211; the one whose leaves are for the healing of the nations &#8211; if no one needs &#8216;healing&#8217; in the new earth?<br />
I think when we get a clearer picture of what &#8220;sin and death&#8221; mean&#8230;we can see the amazing beauty of this present moment&#8230;being one with our creator and knowing nothing can ever separate us from him..Sin removed.</p>
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